13. CAN'T HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT AND A DEMON?

    I never thought much about this in my old life but it keeps coming up so I feel led to write about it.  My sources of information are Dr. Bree Keyton and a mentor from years ago I refer to as Lady Barnabas, I don't remember her real name now.
     This topic first came up for me while looking for counseling.  In a new marriage with much turmoil from outside sources, 2 exes with 2 sets of kids, my partner's aging parents she was taking care of, and a cognitively impaired younger brother she helped with, there was a never ending source of issues that seemed to keep me in obsessive mode much of the time.  I sought counseling for this and asked a pastor, "Could it be some form of demonic possession."  He told me a person can't have the Holy Spirit and a demon.  Later when I came across Dr. Keyton and read her book, I remembered this pastor and his misinformation.
     To explain more about Lady Barnabas, she came into my life shortly after my second divorce.  I had made a move to town from a rural area where I'd built a house, mainly to be closer to people.  I'd been cut off from my old life by a restraining order.  She contacted me via. a craigslist posting, told me she didn't reply until she felt peace, she felt peace so she emailed me.  Our relationship was not to be romantic though she was an attractive woman, but platonic and she became my mentor for a time.
     She'd had a stong gifting since childhood, she didn't know why but it was there.  She took severe punishment from what I feel are satan's handmaidens, Catholic nuns, when refusing to do things she knew was wrong in school.  She gave me a description of a demon she'd seen and satan himself as he'd appeared to her to tempt her away from God.  She described satan as a tall good looking man in a business suit.  The demon she described as froglike in appearance, about waist high.  I previously described a similar description John saw and wrote about in Revelation.
     We don't get much background or description in the Bible, where they're from, how they were created, etc.  They come in all shapes and sizes.  Dr. Keyton describes a spirit of Python she once saw in a church via the gift of discernment.  She said it was "about 12 feet tall, hideous with scales, and it had one snake-like eye in the center of its forehead."  It chokes off finances, causes weariness, fatigue, confusion, frustration, pressure, heaviness, oppression, depression, fear, coughing and choking.

Edit from 6-15-15  Read on for complete explanation of source of demons.  I've learned much since I wrote this.

     Most people don't understand what a demon is.  They come in all shapes and sizes and have various functions, some overlapping.  They can get promoted or demoted, depending on their performance.  As Lady Barnabas explained to me, the run of the mill demon has very little power. He's like a gnat, all he can do is whisper lies or negative thoughts into his victim.  It takes a large collection, called a stronghold to have any real power.  For instance the Jezebel spirit is comprised of 17 evil spirits working in unison.  We develop strongholds when we repeatedly sin or experience negative emotions strongly.  Children experiencing trauma, anguish, hatred, etc. seem particularly susceptible to their entry.  One demon doesn't do what you saw in the movie, The Exorcist.  That would take a few hundred or perhaps thousand.  I'm not certain of all the specifics, have a lot to learn..
     I just heard the opinion in a Celebrate Recovery meeting that it's our own fault for letting in demons by our sin.  Absolutely wrong.  Many of us are innocent when these things come in and develop strongholds.
     An example from my childhood.  Sometime in adolescence my grandfather, father, brother and I were harvesting pulpwood my father had planted years earlier on my grandparents' property. Pulpwood is a big industry in the south, used for paper production, cut into 8' lengths and hauled to a mill.  I was on top of the truck pulling these logs up.  When loaded, I climbed down a nearby tree.  A limb I was standing on broke and I dropped but it snagged me on the way down gouging a large wound in my chest.  I still have a 4 inch scar, I didn't fall to the ground, my t-shirt hung up on the snag.  My bare stomach scraped against the rough tree bark.  I was in excruciating pain, hung on a tree a couple feet off the ground.  I reached up and had to jerk on my t-shirt a few times to tear it so I could fall to the ground.  There I was, balled up in the worst pain I'd felt in my life and my father walked around and verbally speared me.  "What are you doing," he growled at me.  "Take it like a man, rub some mud in it.  Why didn't you climb down the cab?"  I didn't dare answer him, the wrong tone of voice would have gotten me slapped or kicked, but remember thinking with bitter hatred while in this agonizing pain, "Because I might have dented the truck and you'd have kicked me for that." "Get back to work," he told me.  Oh it hurt, but I started piling slash.  Shortly after, I vomited and turned white, about to pass out I think.  My brother pointed out to my father that I looked sick and only then did he let me take a break.
     My father was a rich man, an airline pilot, but he kept his family living near poverty.  Extra money from free or cheap kid labor was squandered gambling not supporting his family.  He lived like a king and gave my mother junk to drive.  She recalls scrounging for change in the couch and furniture so she could treat her children to a hamburger.  One of my sisters almost died from a ruptured appendix because he didn't want to waste his money on unnecessary doctor's visits for his kids. The role modeling he gave me was that a man should sleep around every chance he got then beat his wife if another man flirted with her.  He deserves a special place in hell and part of me would like to help him get there sooner.  Another part of me though understands that my father suffered horrible abuse himself as a child and can't help much of his behavior but he's never tried to improve on it.  Other than a financial gift to one of my sisters for giving her back problems for life from a beating with a 2 X 4, he's made no effort to change or shown repentance to those he abused.  Rom 12:19 "It is mine to avenge; I will repay."  As I said earlier, the worse the trauma, the harder it is to forgive but we must.   I know where my strongholds developed and it wasn't because of my sin.  I was innocent.
     I was innocent hanging on that tree but a huge collection of demons came in over that incident.  I've wondered about the verse we see a couple times in the Bible, Deut and later in Gal, "Cursed is he who hangs from a tree,"  (or pole).  I had a tiny, tiny glimpse of the anguish Jesus went through for us with that experience.  I guess I'm cursed then, but I WAS INNOCENT.
     Many of us victims of abuse, like the Sad Lady with her molester and I with my father have a very difficult time forgiving our abusers but it has to happen before Jesus's healing can come.  I'd forgiven my father but now, having moved near him and spending some time with him have had my wounds reopened.  My father is a feeble old man now but still does damage with his mouth and I learned of numerous incidents from others and saw him in action so it's become a current issue for me.  I need to forgive him and forget him, stay away from him to avoid future trigger incidents.
     Demons are evil creatures under the authority of satan's fallen angels or dark princes.  Sin allows them entry but so does trauma, anguish, hatred, fear and other emotions not in line with the christian walk.

Edit from 6-6-15  I can't recall where I learned it, either first hand from Lady Barnabas or I may have read that someone with a gift of discernment watched as a demon hopped into a man's body through his mouth when the man saw a beautiful woman and lusted for her.  In our society, a man can't help but seeing tempting flesh everywhere he looks, commercials, the grocery store, on line, forget about the pool.  I went kayaking a couple Saturdays ago with my brother and considering my months of abstinence, had a number of painful experiences seeing a good deal of gorgeous bikini clad flesh.

     Here's my argument for all those pastors and people who don't think we can have the Holy Spirit and a demon:
     Have any 2 people in the history of christianity who have the Holy Spirit ever committed adultery or fornication?  Of course.  What led them to do that?  Certainly not the Holy Spirit.  Ok, so they gave in to temptation without the encouragement of a demon.  Did they let a demon in during the act?  Well that couldn't have happened with the Holy Spirit could it have?  Did they continue in an affair?  Many probably have, some may have left their partners for their new lover.  Did a demon come in then?
     If they were both pure and demon free when they had sex, were they still pure and demon free after sex, since no demon transfer could have happened during the act.  I like this argument, so those of us with the Holy Spirit are free to have sex with each other and no evil will come into our bodies? I think the "no demon with the Holy Spirit" argument is starting to break down.

Edit:  Another conundrum for the "no demon with the Holy Spirit" folks from my experience, the man who committed suicide from my church, "once saved, always saved," if he was saved, he wouldn't have a demon would he?  If all he has is the Holy Spirit, he wouldn't be committing suicide now would he?    I can relate to this man.  After I wrote how puzzling it was for a guy like this with a big house, beautiful wife and kids and successful business to commit suicide, it occurred to me that description fit me and I'd considered it with similar financial success as an escape from alcoholism. That could have been I.  After the baptism in the spirit and distinct God encounters, in my "valley of the shadow of death" I was considering suicide again but didn't mainly for fear of eternal damnation.
      Regarding suicide, there's an evil spirit for that, a dark prince or fallen angel much more powerful than a demon, sometimes accompanied by a lying spirit.  Spirits of Suicide and Death are their names.
     As Dr. Keyton says, we are three part beings, soul, spirit and flesh and I've used my baptism in the spirit as an example of my personal experiences on this topic.  I think we're going to have demons with us like bacteria as long as we exist and we clean them out by repentance, trying to let the Holy Spirit become stronger in us and living in a way pleasing to God and Jesus.  But, like bacteria, I don't think we'll ever get all of them out unless we become as perfect as Jesus and that's not going to happen.
     We're free from the law, forgiven of our sins by grace through repentance and cleansed by the blood of Jesus.  However we're clearly told not to abuse grace, as I've done plenty of.  I'm still working on the motivating concept that we're supposed to follow God's rules in an effort to please God and Jesus for what they're doing for us, not out of fear of punishment.  That will lead me to my next posting, ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED?
     I once played God with one of my sons along the lines of the message in that last paragraph.  The oldest had gone off to college, only an hour away.  He was boarding on campus as the college recommended this for a kid to be able to become connected,  This was the oldest and I'd allotted 30K to each son to use for whatever training they wanted with the only strings being their performance in school.  If it wasn't enough money, they'd have to come up with the difference, if there was some left over, they could keep it.
     He went to school and became very involved with extra curricular activities and wasn't coming home for visits.  We missed him and I told him in one conversation, "We've decided to cut you off and tie your college money to visits home, say $250 for a weekend visit."  "Really?" he said, sounding a bit alarmed.  "No, not really, I told him, but considering what we're doing for you, we'd hope you'd show some appreciation and come visit the old folks once in a while."
     I think that's how it is with God and us.  With all he's doing for us, we ought to show Him some appreciation in the way we live.